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Wal-Mart hopes for a Blu-ray boom (from below),lin - Hide thread - By  Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars on July 2, 2009:
- "Wal-Mart is trying to fill the space in consumers' shopping bags left empty by the disappearance of Circuit City. As part of that effort, the retail giant is stepping up its Blu-ray offering. " ... "Besides more players, Wal-Mart is also selling more discs. The retailer's renewed Blu-ray push comes on the heels of its move past Amazon.com as the nation's No. 2 seller of Blu-ray discs. Best Buy leads with 40-50 percent market share of Blu-ray discs sold at retail, followed by Wal-Mart with 20-30 percent share, according to industry sources cited by Blu-ray.com. The data showed Wal-Mart leapfrogged Amazon.com, which now has 15-20 percent of Blu-ray sales." - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10243357-1.html - link courtesy of David A below. Report inappropriate content
26 responses:
Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2009-07-02 16:38:38.0: Milty boy wrote " inclusion of W/M into overall sales means that Booray's share of market might be as low as 3%, and not the official 8% YTD currently from Nielson/VideoScan." No sh!t - how can someone with only 20-30% of market share bring an 8% of sales down to 3%? That sort of dilution would require about 60% market share and ZERO BD sales. Go figure Report inappropriate content
Milt R. Smith responds on 2009-07-02 16:55:05.0: MIKE HD, on "... No sh!t - how can someone with only 20-30% of market share bring an 8% of sales down to 3%?" That's the whole problem: Mr. Bullsh!t(aka D. Attenborough) asserted last week that W/M had 20% to 30% of the BD market, but when pressed to provide an independent URL to confirm such digits, instead posted a HILARIOUS comment that his figures came from BLU-RAY.COM which, in turn, cited "industry sources" for those numbers. Since W/M aggressively guards its sales numbers, and since 2001 refuses to share its POS terminal scan data with ANYBODY, it begs the question: EXACTLY from where did the "industry sources" get that 20% to 30% number? Absent such independent URL confirmation, we can only assume that it's a complete fabrication. And with this week's Nielsen/Videoscan numbers putting BD at a paltry 8% share of market, and with W/M probably selling about 16-million standard DVDs(vs about 1.8-million actual BD sales), the numbers just don't add up. One thing is for sure, and that is that Booray continues as a FLOP with the mass market. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-02 17:53:19.0: @Milt R. Smith. Hahahaha. As I said before, spoonfeeding you is EXTREMELY tiresome. Below is a VB article (the one I quoted originally), from a week or so before the CNet article and the information on Blu-Ray.com, on Walmart's market share which states "Wal-Mart is the runner-up with 20% to 30% market share." You'll note they're taking their information directly from analysts, not Blu-Ray.com. I'm sure you could have found it (or one of the many other sources. I'm not here to wipe your arse for you. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-02 17:54:41.0: Link to VB, I trust that's independent enough for you. Would you like a tissue to wipe all that egg from your fizog? - http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6657099.html Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough (AKA Mr. Bullsh!t) responds on 2009-07-02 18:00:27.0: @Milt R. Smith. Coming from your good self, a bloke whose modesty alone, I'm sure, prevents him from suffixing his name with the PHD in bullsh!t he holds, that's quite a compliment. It's a cognomen I'll happily adopt permanently if you can just provide an example where you show ANY example that proves your figures of a 92%/8% ratio at Walmart, added to a 92%/8% ratio industry wide, results in anything but a ratio of 92%/8%, rather than the idiocy it actually represents. Good luck! Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-02 18:13:50.0: @MikeHD. You're indeed correct. In fact, contrary to Milty's figures going "unchallenged", I presented a number of examples using actual numbers which showed just how many DVDs Walmart would have to sell, whilst still selling ZERO Blu Rays, to affect the overall market share by even 1-2%, and they'd have to have the whole DVD market tied up. It's just another thing Milt's selective miopia doesn't allow him to admit. Report inappropriate content
Milt R. Smith responds on 2009-07-02 18:19:16.0: A LAUGH A MINUTE FROM MR BULLSH!T(aka D. ATTENBOROUGH): That VideoBusiness article cited is as devoid of hard sources as BluRay.com. What 'analysts'? From what WalMart source? This is pure, unadulterated guesswork. Meaningless. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough (AKA Mr. Bullsh!t) responds on 2009-07-02 18:28:55.0: Ah, I see. Rather than take the shame, you're now trying to implicate VideoBusiness in some sort of pro-Blu Ray cabal? That's the BEST you can come up with to cover your embarassment? Priceless. That couldn't have worked better if I'd DELIBERATELY posted the article referencing Blu-Ray.com ;) Take the shame, old man, you just got busted. And I'm STILL waiting for that example that proves your calculation. If the monkey I offered to pay as a reward wasn't tempting enough, SURELY the offer for me to PERMANENTLY adopt the "AKA Mr. Bullsh!t" nom de plume will be? We're WAITING, but NOT holding our breath! Hahahahahaha Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-02 18:33:09.0: And it's GREAT to see you're still laughing. I've always thought being able to laugh in the face of adversity a GREAT trait. Laughing in the face of the undeniable however, that's a different matter. I just hope you have a loved one nearby when the laughter stops. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-02 18:46:39.0: Just a quick illustration re those Walmart sales to help Milty on his way. If the rest of the market sells 92 DVDs for every 8 Blu Rays, and Walmart sells 92 DVDs and zero Blu Rays, then Blu Ray would still hold 4% of the market (4.16666 recurring in fact) and Walmart would have a full 50% of the DVD market and 0% of the Blu Ray market, rather than the 20-30% share of Blu Ray sales reported by independent trade publication Video Business. Hope that helps Milty! Hahahahahaha Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-02 18:52:49.0: Anyone with a secondary school education can work their own "what if" figures from there to show quite conclusively that Milt's figures just don't, quite literally, add up. Milt on the other hand can continue demonstrating his educational level by repeating the same tired old drivel. Report inappropriate content
Milt R. Smith responds on 2009-07-02 19:39:47.0: MR. BULLSH!T(AKA D. Attenborough). on "you're now trying to implicate VideoBusiness in some sort of pro-Blu Ray cabal? " Implicating VideoBusiness? For what? There's nothing to implicate; mine is just a logical, rudimentary inquiry, to wit: they're quoting some sort of 'analysts' and stating a 20% to 30% W/M share of the market: but since Wal*Mart aggressively secretes its sales numbers and refuses to share them with ANY data aggregators since 2001, WHAT IS THE CONFIRMING BASIS FOR THOSE DIGITS? One more time: absent such hard evidence, we can only conclude that these assertions are speculative and without foundation. Compare this with the Nielsen/VideoScan numbers which are derived from POS terminal scan data and directly from retailers. Next, the very same issue I posed weeks ago as a starting point to settle this issue once and for all: OBTAIN THE ACTUAL UNIT SALES OF ALL DVDs(standard and BluRay - and no 'shipped crap) for last year and YTD 2009; with that the veil of secrecy being so tightly drawn by Sony and its Booray allies will be pulled apart as a starting point. TRUST ME: the LAST THING Sony and its allies want is the actual, real-world UNIT SALES(and especially those from Wal*Mart). Don't believe it? Starting holding your breath in anticipation ---- RIGHT NOW! Report inappropriate content
Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2009-07-02 22:33:21.0: "...they're quoting some sort of 'analysts' and stating a 20% to 30% W/M share of the market: but since Wal*Mart aggressively secretes its sales numbers and refuses to share them with ANY data aggregators since 2001, WHAT IS THE CONFIRMING BASIS FOR THOSE DIGITS?" Let's see, might it be the aggregate number of BDs that were shipped to W/M? That would certainly put an upper limit (30%?) on how many units W/M had sold. It seems reasonable that W/M would sell minimally 2/3rds of their BDs within some given time frame, which would be the low-ball 20%. Or is that getting into the "and no 'shipped crap[']"? Sooooooo, Milty boy, are you trying to suggest that W/M would just keep on ordering BDs without actually selling any in the meantime? Pray tell, how would they pay for new orders? Income from OTHER products? Hardly, things don't work that way - period. Report inappropriate content
Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2009-07-03 01:17:52.0: "...but since Wal*Mart aggressively secretes its sales numbers" - I'm not sure you should have used that phrase, we all know what 'secretion" means. Go figure Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 03:42:05.0: Milt is a real piece of work, true enough! This is the guy who lurks around his local Walmart for the short periods when his medication wears off, furtively counting the number of customers visiting the bargain DVD bins, counts how many DVDs pass the tills in his limited field of vision, extrapolates that out for the time when he's not there, then extrapolates that further to account for EVERY Walmart store in the USA, and pronounces the figure he comes up with as "unchallenged" and "as good as anyone else's". Even though his back of a fag packet calculation tells him that Walmart (the biggest single DVD retailer in the USA) sells a "whopping" total of 16 million DVDs a year, he can't see the evident flaws and talks as if it's gospel, basing a further set of half-arsed calculations around it, but let's not get into his inability to perform basic mathmatic calculations. And after all that, he's got the front to dispute figures from a well-respected trade publication with access to industry figures and sources, and an in-depth understanding of the market that he clearly can't even comprehend. Weak, weak, weak. As I said earlier Milty, you got caught out, you should just hold your hands up instead of this squirming. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 03:48:49.0: @MikeHD, again, right on the money. I've said to Milty before that the distributors will have a pretty good idea of how many DVDs Walmart are selling for that very reason. Like you say, Walmart will order what sells. It's therefore a completely reasonable assumption that analysts and bodies like NPD/Neilsen will have access to this studio data, and by comparing it to other retailers will be able to see precisely where Walmart fits into the scheme of things, hence the quite wide ranging calculation of 20-30%. Whatever though, it's certainly going to be a more informed and accurate estimate of Walmart's sales than those generated by a seedy old man lurking around his local store and then multiplynig out his findings and calling the result good. Report inappropriate content
Milt R. Smith responds on 2009-07-03 15:08:22.0: TO MR. BULLSH!T(aka D. Attenborough) AND MIKE HD: Mike includes my absolute, positive, all-time favorite in his quote: "...might it be the aggregate number of BDs that were shipped to W/M?" Without a doubt, in the pantheon of horsesh!t. "shipped" is my all-time favorite. Yes, dear readers, General Motors and Chrysler(to name two) "shipped" cars to the West, to the East, the South and the North; in fact, "shipped" the hell out of 'em, as did Toshiba with its HD-DVD players. GM and Chrysler went BK after all their "shipped" products, and Toshiba flopped after Sony allegedly paid more moola to Warners despite would-be "shipments" by Toshiba. My offer to accept Mr. Bullsh!it's $500 offer with his 20/30 nonsense has of course gone unanswered as soon as he realized he'd need to pay ME if unable to provide independent URL proof of this purported digit(s) from some "analysts". Once again, absent independent proof from Wal*Mart sales, that is a purely speculative guess, and nothing more. The cheap, empty suit that is Mr. Bullsh!t is left out for all to see for that, which is what he is. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 17:36:32.0: On the contrary, my offer of $500 to you, or anyone else who can, using YOUR current Walmart figures of 16 million DVDs to 1.3 million Blu Rays, added to ANY cross-market figures in the same ratio of 92% DVD and 8% Blu Ray and come up a total for BOTH which equals the 97%/3% ratio YOU say is possible. That CHALLENGE to your (supposedly unchallenged) figures was set out some SIX weeks ago, yet NO-ONE is willing to take it up. Least of all the person who STILL persists in making those same crass, imbecillic and downright FALSE claims. THAT is the challenge, any SPURIOUS nonsense you may try and warp my challenge with to DISGUISE the BLATANT fact that you CAN'T square the circle is of NO consequence. YOUR figures. YOUR estimates. YOUR calculation. MY simple challenge? Make them work! Alternatively, continue to IGNORE and SWERVE it, and in doing so admit you're a BLOWHARD and FECKLESS waster. "Nouse ALWAYS trumps mouth", as we say here, and you're giving it PLENTY of the latter and displaying NONE of the former. PROVE ME WRONG! Report inappropriate content
Milt R. Smith responds on 2009-07-03 18:23:33.0: MR. BULLSH!T(aka D. Attenborough), on "On the contrary, my offer of $500 to you, or anyone else who can, using YOUR current Walmart figures of 16 million DVDs..." WHAT HAS THIS TO DO WITH YOUR ORIGINAL $500 CHALLENGE? I've taken up your original $500 offer anent the 20%/30% issue and now you are trying instead to change to a wholly different issue. To be expected from a cheap empty bullsh!t artist like you, of course. For the record, let me reiterate all I've ever said about Wal*Mart DVD sales. Only because excluding the MASSIVE presence that is W/M, is like trying to exclude Toyota(world's largest automaker) from total new car sales; it is an ABSURD premise. BUT, since W/M adamantly guards its POS terminal scan data since 2001, we're left with trying to assemble reasonable numbers from known numbers, to wit, their number of U.S. stores(4,400 EX Sam's Club), 360 annual sales days, and a conservative estimate of 10 average daily sales from their $5 catalog sales bins. Multiplying them out means they're probably moving about 16-million standard DVDs vs about 1.8 million BDs(at 8% current mkt share). That's about 14-million more standard DVDs than Boorays, and so it is IMPOSSIBLE to ignore W/M numbers as this would greatly impact the share of market digit(s). So, then, how does this all translate out to BD? The only way it can is if the actual real-world UNIT SALES of all DVDs is published(something Sony and its allies are furiously trying to prevent); in the meantime, my numbers are good and all the posturing and attempts to change that are irrelevant. Again, how about your original $500 challenge? I've already said I accept, and now there are 9 days left for YOU to do so; can you provide hard independent URL proving the 20%/30% number of which you are so enamored, from those "analysts"? I'm waiting. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 18:50:39.0: Milt R. Smith "WHAT HAS THIS TO DO WITH YOUR ORIGINAL $500 CHALLENGE?" More SQUIRMING and AVOIDANCE, via a FACADE of selective memory I see. My original and ONLY $500 challenge from April 13th is reposted, verbatim below. To avoid any doubt or accusations of tampering, tt can be viewed on this site via Google at the following link - http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22Prove+Milt%27s+figures%2C+win+%24500%22&meta=&aq=f&oq= Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 18:52:08.0: "Prove Milt's figures, win $500" April 13th 2009. Recently I pointed out to Milty that he'd gone from criticising Blu Ray for having 4% of the market, to having what he called a "pathetic 91/9" share in just 3 months. He immediately started claiming that the 9% marketshare was fake, and was likely more like 5%, or even 3%. When I pointed out that the 9% figure was from impartial, well-respected industry sources using Point of Sale data from retailers he countered that Walmart's sales were not included and produced a series of elaborate estimates to attempt to back up his claims. When I then demonstrated that no combination of absolute sales numbers in a 91/9 ratio, when added to HIS Walmart estimates, would lower the overall sales ratio, he started demanding authoritative Walmart sales figures and crying that I had been the one producing estimates. He also REFUSED point blank to accept my challenge to produce ANY combination of sales figures which, when added to HIS estimates, that could possibly reduce the overall ratio. So, given that I'm only a lowly network engineer, more used to calculating subnet ranges and masks than sales ratios, I'm quite willing to accept that I could well be wrong, and Milty, with his years of experience as a financial advisor dealing with percentages, profit and loss etc, knows more than me. In the absence of any SENSIBLE explanation from him, I thought I'd throw it open to other visitors here to prove his figures on his behalf, and offer the sum of $500 (or the equivalent in UK sterling, if preferred), by PayPal or money transfer, to anyone who can do it. Read on for instructions, and see below for proof of Milty's claims. Have fun! Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 18:57:58.0: Here's me on the 22nd of May, restating my offer. I know you read this post as you replied to it, but (predictably) didn't address the offer. "David Attenborough responds on 2009-05-22 18:10:53.0: Oh, and while I've got your attention, any progress on demonstrating the validity of your 12 million/1.2 million + 91%/9% = 97%/3% calculation, as quoted above? I offered $500 to anyone (including you) who could square that particular circle for you, but no takers. Not a one. It's still there for you. If the demonstration of your mathematical prowess above is anything to go by it'd probably come in useful to supplement the alms your employer paid to get rid of you." Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 19:09:20.0: Oh, and just for completeness, here's the instructions that followed the offer. I could also repost the quotes of yours which lay out your inept calculation, but you posted another example of this idiocy recently so it'd be redundant. "David Attenborough responds on 2009-04-13 Right, so here's what you need to do. Although we know that the ratio of overall sales (excluding Walmart) is 91% for DVD, vs 9% for Blu Ray, we don't know any absolute numbers. Milt claims that Walmart sell 12 million DVDs per yer, to 1.2 million Blu Rays (which works out at roughly 91% for DVD, 9% for Blu Ray), and that Walmart by "weight of numbers" alone can reduce the overall market share to 95% DVD and 5% Blu Ray, or even 97% DVD and 3% Blu Ray. Come up with ANY combination of overall sales (excluding Walmart) which, when added to Milty's figure, can reduce the total ratio to the one he suggested. Don't worry that your figures or Milty's figures are ridiculous - that's not important - all that matters is that your figures for overall sales (excluding Walmart) work out at a ratio of 91% for DVD and 9% for Blu Ray. Example - if you believe the rest of the market only sells 100 DVDs and Blu Rays per year, that's 91 DVDs and 9 Blu Rays. Add that to Milty's figure and you get 12,000,091 DVDs vs 1,200,009 Blu Rays. Add them together to get the total number of discs sold industry-wide (13,200,100 for the example), divide that number by 100 to find out what 1% is (132,001) , and then divide the Blu Ray number by that figure to get the percentage of sales Blu Ray has achieved. If the figure is roughly 9%, sorry you've failed, please try again. If you can get the percentage down to 5%, or even 3%, you've either won $500 or calculated incorrectly ;) Below are the quotes which show how Milty got his figures....... " Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-03 19:16:58.0: I just realised I threw the gauntlet down ten weeks ago, not six, and Milty has been avoiding it and repeating the same gibbering load of old bull ever since. Report inappropriate content
Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2009-07-03 20:54:40.0: Hello everyone, I STILL would like to understand just how W/M could dilute/degrade an 8% market share by BDs in the stamped circular digital media (with a mechanical reader/writer) down to 3% - as Milty boy seems to claim. This doesn't add up to anyone other than Milty boy, given the rather limited market share by W/M. Perhaps we should just ask Milty boy for his math re transforming 8% to 3% by 20% - 30% percent of market share in whirring physical media. I, myself, am all ears. Report inappropriate content
David Attenborough responds on 2009-07-04 05:47:47.0: @MikeHD. Again, that's a very good question, one I also posed him a while back when he pronounced Blu Ray's (then) YTD share of 9% as "pitiful" and repeated his half-arsed Walmart theory. Back then I demonstrated that, in order to reduce the YTD figure to hist 3%, Walmart would need to sell 66% of all DVDs in the USA, and still sell zero Blu Rays. His silence was damning. So yes, if it's an easier route to him admitting he is mathmatically inadequate, I'll second your request for him to demonstrate just how Walmart could have such an effect, even by "WEIGHT OF NUMBERS" as he likes to claim. Report inappropriate content

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