Prediction: Blu-ray Will Unseat Standard DVDs,link - Hide thread - By Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars on August 20, 2008:
Prediction: Blu-ray Will Unseat Standard DVDs,link - Show thread - By Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars on August 20, 2008 - 11 responses - Last response on August 21, 2008
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/daves-download/2008/8/19/prediction-blu-ray-will-unseat-standard-dvds.html - that's US News and World Report, NOT some chatroom. Says: "Today brings a more upbeat forecast ... Show entire thread and 11 responses
- http://www.usnews.com/blogs/daves-download/2008/8/19/prediction-blu-ray-will-unseat-standard-dvds.html - that's US News and World Report, NOT some chatroom. Says: "Today brings a more upbeat forecast for Blu-ray. The high-def disks are gaining traction and will outsell standard DVDs by 2012 in the United States, at least in dollar value, says Futuresource Consulting.
U.S. consumers could buy 45 million of the disks this year, or about four times as many as last year, the group says. Sales will accelerate as players creep down in price, with Futuresource echoing earlier predictions that the holiday season could see a Blu-ray player for as little as $200."
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11 responses:
Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 21:14:40.0:
HOW I LOVE PREDICTIONS, LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: What's so great about them, is that they have no downside risk. I can predict that a replacement power source for my Cadillac will get 100 miles a gallon(or run for a thousand miles on a 2-hour electrical charge), and can't be criticised for making it. That's the nature of the beast. "Oh well, things have changed so much in the last 3 years, that my 2012 prediction, made in 2008, was wildly off-base. I tried, but who could know what would happen in the meantime. Mea culpa, mea culpa. Now, I've got to get my predictions for 2016 ready, so you guys sit back and await the wonders I say are coming!!!" HaHaHaHaHaHaHa!
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responds on 2008-08-20 21:41:56.0:
says the man who predicts digital downloads to be the end of mainstream optical disks, while presently they are only 1% of the revenue.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 21:52:57.0:
ANONYMOUS, on predictions: You finally got it! My predictions, and those quoted elsewhere, are no better or worse than any other. God, it took a LOOOONG time for you to get it, but that delay period is said to be a side-effect of inhaling so deeply, sort of like being unable to concentrate.
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MiltyFa g responds on 2008-08-20 22:52:27.0:
i love to like the cream filling out of boys who have just begun to cum. the trick to fully enjoy this is not to swallow immediately, but to gurgle it in your mouth for about 30-45 sec. and then let the cum slide down your throat.
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 23:06:05.0:
Wow, NOW Milty boy is trying to claim that HIS predictions are no worse or better than "any other" Well, to put the matter VERY succinctly - if Milty boy's predictions are as good as any other (by implication), we are in DEEP pucky. However, that ain't exactly the case. Milty boy predicted that whatever format could get a player out for $167 (or such) would win the format war. HD DVD players got even cheaper than that, but lost out. Milty boy WAS WRONG. Mike HD, on the other hand, predicted last Fall that, no matter what, Blu-ray would continue in at least a minority role, a niche product. Guess what - it did. Mike The Pirate WAS RIGHT. And, I'm NOT going to belabor everyone with The Pirate striking it rich with gold investments, and - now - the liquid form of gold. I'm getting the impression that everyone is getting REAL bored with all that. Especially Milty boy, since I've been getting stuff right, and he's been getting it wrong. No wonder he now is trying to claim that his predictions are on par with anyone else's. Nice try, Milty boy. Actually, a pretty sorry-assed rear-guard action, if you get my drift. Aha Haha Haha
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 23:07:21.0:
MiltyFa g - go F_CK OFF.
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-20 23:08:16.0:
Milt, once again you are CLUELESS. Every business needs to cover all of its costs in order to make a profit. Suppose you had a Hyundai car dealership. For this SPECIFIC business, profit will be measured by how many UNITS ARE SOLD AND THE PRICE FOR EACH UNIT!. However, if you compare a Hyundai dealership and a Lexus dealership you could not use units sold as a valid comparison standard between the two. The profits margin for each Lexus sold is much greater than that of a Hyundai. Thus, you could sell a lot more Hundais than Lexus and have lower net income. Working out your costs accurately is an essential part of working out your pricing.
Business costs will be classified under two under two headings:
---- fixed costs are those that are always there, regardless of how much or how little you sell, for example rent, salaries and business rates
---- variable costs are those that rise as with each car sold: sales commissions, processing expenses, costs of purchasing the vehicle, ect.
---When you set a price, it must be higher than the variable cost of producing your product or service. Each sale will then make a contribution towards covering your fixed costs --- and making profits.
---For example, a car dealership has variable costs of $16,000 per car sold and total fixed costs of $400,000 a year that must be covered. If the company sells 80 cars each year, it needs a contribution towards the fixed costs of at least $5,000 per car ($400,000 divided by 80) to avoid making a loss. However, at some point a car dealership will sell cars at a price that covers the fixed costs but does not contribute the full $5,000 of the variable costs. However, the deficit in the amount that the business needs to cover its variable costs needs to be recaptured at some point, or the business will go bankrupt
Using this structure, you can assess the consequences of setting different price levels:
--- if the car dealership sells cars at less than $16,000 (the variable cost per car), it makes a loss on each car it sells and does not cover any of its fixed costs
---selling 80 cars at $16,000 means a loss of $400,000 per year as none of the fixed costs are covered
---selling cars at $21,000 results in breaking even, assuming the target 80 cars are sold (80 contributions of $5,000 per car = $400,000, ie the fixed costs)
--- selling cars at $22,000 results in a profit, assuming 80 cars are sold (80 contributions of $1,000 = $1,760,000, ie $80,000 over the fixed costs)
--- if more or fewer than 80 cars are sold, profits are correspondingly higher or lower. ALL TOGETHER NOW: SAY BYE BYE TO MILT R SMITH!
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-20 23:14:53.0:
BTW I agree with Mike...The Milty impostor needs to get a real life!
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 23:33:33.0:
Well, that WAS an interesting diatribe against Milty boy, though I didn't exactly (bother to) follow. That bit about "variable cost" usually is put forth as recurrent cost - essentially production and distribution costs. Even there, we have a certain fixed cost - the cost of setting up production lines, for instance. However, I hope that everyone appreciates the fact that producing a BD player is a heck of a lot more than stamping out a BD. Even relative to "development" costs. Never mind that production lines for BD players are a just a tad bit more involved than cookie-stamping BDs. All the same, EVERYONE is trying to pay off/down the non-recurrent costs. Optimally. Sooooooo, if someone figures that their product will go commodity pricing in the near future, they'll try to get the most out of their current sales. Soooo, The Pirate explains to Milty boy that current BD prices are STILL HIGH because everyone expects them to drop majorly very soon. Soooo, Milty boy, any retort to this that doesn't involve your used car sales tactics?
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 23:37:15.0:
"BTW I agree with Mike...The Milty impostor needs to get a real life!" - probably a real sex life, in any case. It most likely would help matters, eh? Jacking off here this way just doesn't cut it.
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responds on 2008-08-21 10:32:15.0:
"My predictions, and those quoted elsewhere, are no better or worse than any other." spoken just like someone who doesn't know a lick about predictions. you see, some predictions are based on things that those of us in the real world refer to as "facts" and "polls" and "statistical analysis." such predictions are more likely to occur than those that are not, or, in your case, totally contradict any competent statistical analysis. here's an interesting challenge, milty-boy: come up with one verifiable prediction that you have on this board made that has inarguably come true. i might suggest that you leave these boards if you cannot do so, but honestly, that would take so much joy out of my daily life, that i would not even dare to request it. many of us can point to at least one successful prediction - we read the numbers and predicted the demise of hd-dvd. you can perhaps argue that blu-ray has not won, but hd-dvd definitely lost.
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Will Satellite's 1080p HD Really Be 1080p?,link - Hide thread - By Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars on August 19, 2008:
Will Satellite's 1080p HD Really Be 1080p?,link - Show thread - By Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars on August 19, 2008 - 38 responses - Last response on August 20, 2008
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2055299/posts?page=3 - this should DEFINITELY increase awareness of 1080p - including, duh, Blu-ray. And, yes indeed, Milty boy, there IS a difference between 10... Show entire thread and 38 responses
- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2055299/posts?page=3 - this should DEFINITELY increase awareness of 1080p - including, duh, Blu-ray. And, yes indeed, Milty boy, there IS a difference between 1080i and 1080p
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38 responses:
responds on 2008-08-19 19:23:37.0:
Mike is already delirious from the Petrol fumes he has been inhaling.
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-19 19:43:01.0:
Blu-ray / TV combos are coming soon.
"Mitsubishi Preps Blu-ray HDTV Combo, Too
Posted August 19, 2008 07:43 PM by Josh Dreuth
A few days after Funai announced they were planning to release a Blu-ray/HDTV combo, Mitsubishi showed off their upcoming combo called "REAL Blu-ray". The company has yet to manufacturer a Blu-ray player. No specs have been announced at this time, but representatives expect the set to go into production soon."
www.blu-ray.com
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MiltyF ag responds on 2008-08-19 20:11:58.0:
hi mike, stick to your guns, blu-ray is evil. going off to lick some crevices, hopefully boys, im more in a boy mood right now than a girl. i like it when their tiny balls slap me in the face while im tossing their salad. it feels like soft, little marbles rolling all over my face
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-19 21:48:07.0:
1080P SATELLITE IMAGES? Well, I've never been able to get a straight answer from rep's at local BestBuy and Fry's, but all those dozens of HDTVs around the walls, purportedly using sat/cab/OTA, sure have image quality equal to or better than the nearby BluRay demo kiosk. So, if they're not 1080p, then they surely must be 1080i or 720p. Point is, though, there's no discernible difference between them and the BluRay display. What we CAN say however, all together now, is BYE-BYE TO ALL OPTICAL DISKS !!!
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-19 22:43:53.0:
What we can say, safely, is that Milty boy is full of sh!t. Especially when " What we CAN say however, all together now, is BYE-BYE TO ALL OPTICAL DISKS !!! "
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MiltyF ag responds on 2008-08-19 22:59:10.0:
i like compression....of a dozen naked boys on top of my hot body.
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-19 23:14:03.0:
1080P satelite broadcast will only accelerate Blu-ray production. As consumers get used to the high resolution, nothing else (DVD, DD) will do. Milty did 1080i satelite broadcasts kill DVD?;-)
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MiltyF ag responds on 2008-08-19 23:19:23.0:
i understand, i get things confused easily. i mean f ucking a boy in his butt and f ucking a girl in her butt are too seperate things, but the feeling is the same. correct? just like 1080i and 1080p!
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 00:10:43.0:
MiltyF ag, shove it, go play with yourself, but DO just shut the f_ck up and go away. YOU make Milty boy sound like a nice guy. Go figure
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responds on 2008-08-20 09:25:23.0:
obviously milty-boy's ability to discern image quality is highly suspect seeing as how he's still using an old 65" rear-projection crt that can't even do full, widescreen 1080i. his last comment even basically admits that he can't see a difference between 720p and 1080p when the latter is 2.25x the resolution of the former. i guess it's understandable why you're happy with upconversion, which - at best - can only make up data to clean up an image that's 1/6th the quality of blu-ray.
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responds on 2008-08-20 10:29:25.0:
"Blu Ray sales impressive for 2008. According to Home Media Research compiled by the Redhill Group, it appears that Blu-ray sales are actually quite solid for the year, and up 300 percent year-on-year from 2007.
The research says that Blu-ray movies are selling at about 1.14 million per month on average for the year, for a total of about 8 million. The combined total for 2006 and 2007 was about 6 million discs sold.
The latest numbers completely contradict ABIresearch's recent projections that Blu-ray was seeing a "lukewarm response" from consumers and that the PS3 was the "only bright spot" for the format.
ABI's survey was conducted in April, a month after Toshiba decided to stop production of rival HD DVD and it seems that sales have skyrocketed since then with only one format on the market." http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/15132.cfm
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responds on 2008-08-20 10:30:39.0:
Soooooo...... what's Milty's next stalking horse gonna be? Or glue-pot bound lame old nag, as seems more likely?
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 13:46:30.0:
ANONYMOUS: On BluRay sales, dream on. With the latest digits showing standard DVDs at 94% to 95% of the market, and standalone BluRay players selling at a BLISTERING rate of 14 average per month at Wal*Mart and Best Buy(and that's not counting Toshiba's newest super-upcon player released this week at half the price of a BD unit), one thing is for sure: the only thing that'll save BluRay is $99 standalone players. BUT, it's still all about electronic delivery of movies to the home, and that's why we can confidentialy all say BYE BYE TO ALL OPTICAL DISKS !!!
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Helen responds on 2008-08-20 13:53:43.0:
"Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 13:46:30.0: The only thing that'll save BluRay is $99 standalone players." I think that has already happened, Milt, and you missed it. Toshiba sold their HD DVD player for $99 and killed HD DVD's profit - thereby saving Blu-ray.
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 14:08:48.0:
Excerpt from some email I got: "Thank you for the PS3 and helpful accessories, though I hope you know that you are turning your son into a "PS3 Freak" as you always put it haha. We can just consider this a house warming gift to make me feel better." Sooooooo, PS3s are "saving Blu-ray", for the time being. Stand-alone sales will pick up too, once the price goes down - and once the general public becomes more informed about HD - as is happening as we speak. Which is what this thread is all about, eh?
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 14:17:45.0:
HELEN on "...thereby saving BluRay". Really? Then why are BD standalone players languishing in the aisles, doing little more than taking up space. In contrast to your opinion, what that $99 one-day stunt by Toshiba with its HD-DVD player proved is that there IS a market for hi-def disk players(albeit a small one). At current prices, standalone BluRay players are a drug on the market, and giving electronic distribution of movies for the home a greater window to become the primary established system for this purpose(see Netflix online service, unable to keep up with the demand).
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responds on 2008-08-20 14:41:53.0:
wow, milty-boy, what an impressive retort. the best thing you can say to hard sales numbers is "dream on." but i guess i should be surprised with the number of verifiable facts in your comments. for instance, blu-ray has been selling over 9% of the market the last 5 weeks (http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=23025 [sources in the thread]), and what has dd done? they're estimating it might make it up to 1% of packaged media this year (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080714-p2p-not-hurting-dvd-blu-ray-sales-as-revenues-up-from-2007.html). do you have any data that's not just speculation? roku sales numbers? vudu?
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responds on 2008-08-20 14:52:13.0:
here's some speculation for you. you know why digitally distributed movie sales are not going anywhere right now? compare it to dd music. what do 99% of people do with the music they download? put it on an mp3 player to take with them everywhere. it's compact, handy, and portable. what do 99% of people do with downloaded and streamed movies? they sit on the boxes to which they were downloaded. why? only a fraction of people have both the know-how to get them onto a portable device/disk and the amorality to break the law in doing so. until drm-free dd movies are sorted out, it will be confined to the rental market.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 15:14:30.0:
ANONYMOUS, on VGCHARTZ digits: What in the world are you talking about? From the charts you provided, starting about 30 days ago:
7/20: Source
* DVD sales down 2.66% to $112.23m
* Blu-ray sales down 9.58% to $7.61m
* DVD 92% Blu-ray 8%
* ALTD: 93/7
7/27: Source
* DVD sales up 3.13% to $115.75m
* Blu-ray sales up 5.03% to $8m
* DVD 91% Blu-ray 9%
* ALTD: 93/7
8/3: Source
* DVD sales up 7.93% to $124.93m
* Blu-ray sales up 17.85% to $9.42m
* DVD 90% Blu-ray 10%
* ALTD: 92/8
8/10: Source
* DVD sales up 0.71% to $125.81m
* Blu-ray sales down 23.88% to $6.89m
* DVD 93% Blu-ray 7%
* ALTD: 92/8
As bad as the figures are, I urge you to note that these numbers are in DOLLARS, and not in unit sales. So, these are HEAVILY SKEWED numbers, because the MSRPs on BluRay disks(and players too) are so much more than for standard DVDs(and standard DVD players). If the MSRP on a BluRay disk is at least $25, vs at least $18 on a standard DVD, and the MSRP on a BluRay standalone is at least $300, vs least $69(or LESS) for a standard DVD player, that means these digits are pure nonsense in the real world. Am I suggesting they're dishonest in terms of DOLLARS? Not at all. What I am saying is that by not also showing UNIT sales, this is a highly distorted picture of comparative sales. The essential numbers are in net retail unit sales(retail sales less returns). Why not also get hard numbers comparing UNIT sales from an independent source? Oh, and on a further note: remember also that the world's largest retailer, Wal*Mart does NOT share its POS terminal scan numbers with ANYONE, so what Wal*Mart actually sells is known only to - - - WAL*MART!
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Igor responds on 2008-08-20 15:28:54.0:
U.S. Blu-ray Sales to Top DVD Sales by 2012 Author: ERIK GRUENWEDEL egruenwedel@questex.com Posted: August 19, 2008 Email this Story to Friend Sales of Blu-ray Discs in the United States are expected to total about 45 million units this year (up 400% year-over-year) and equal to 61% of all packaged media (DVD) unit sales by 2012, according to a new report. Industry experts expect a banner fourth quarter, with BD sales already accounting for 5% to 6% of major title sales, according to London-based Futuresource Consulting. That sales percentage could reach 12% on some of the major releases. I would be amazed if we dont see a Blu-ray player in the U.S. at or below $250 by the end of the year, said Futuresource analyst Jack Wetherill. To stimulate consumer traffic in the holiday season, whos to say there wont be a player [priced] closer to $200? The report hinted at a relative dearth of catalog titles released thus far on the next-generation optical-media format despite assurances by studios to up distribution. All eyes are on Warner Bros. initiative to cut catalog prices, said Mai Hoang, a lead analyst with Futuresource. Other studios and retailers are going to be watching consumer reaction to this very carefully. By comparison, the report said sales of Blu-ray movies in Western Europe would lag compared to those in the United States, representing 50% of home entertainment sales in France, 46% in Germany, 44% in the United Kingdom, 43% in Spain and 39% in Italy. We expect 2% of unit sales in the lead markets of the U.K. and France to be on BD this year, and & likely to hit 5-6% next year, Hoang said. The report concluded that by 2012, upwards of 50% of all consumer spending on packaged media will be on Blu-ray Disc. www.homemediamagazine.com
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responds on 2008-08-20 15:53:15.0:
spin away, my sad little friend. you said "the latest digits showing standard DVDs at 94% to 95% of the market". the market is not calculated in number of disks sold, despite your insistance that "the essential numbers are in net retail unit sales." the market for anything is always calculated in dollars, because that is what shows demand. here's an example for you - if i am a car manufacturer and i sell 10 cars in a year for 5 million dollars apiece, and you are a car manufacturer and sell 50k cars for $100 apiece, who has the lead in the market? i do - by 10x. but you were a fancy-pants financial advisor, weren't you, so you know all of this and really are talking out of your a$$. or maybe you really were an actor like you said elsewhere - you certainly spout plent of fiction on this board.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 16:24:48.0:
IGOR: What in the HELL are you smoking? Anyone is entitled to predict, or estimate, anything they like. problem is, such predictions or estimates
are exactly that, and nothing more. Hell, in the electronics business, six months is an eternity, so what value is an estimate or projection to 2012 some 4 years out. HaHaHaHaHaHa! Gimme a break. Oh, and remember to inhale DEEPLY, as I believe these estimates or projections will actually look even better - to you.
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responds on 2008-08-20 16:25:54.0:
What an A$$...he just reiterated what Milt was saying...you can't go by dollar amounts because it's like comparing apples to oranges, so to speak. The number of units sold is the only way you can compare these two fairly. 92% vs 8%? 92 SD DVDs sold and only 8 BR disc sold. If everyone was evenly wealthy, then you might get away with the dollar amounts in sales figures; however, everyone is not evenly wealthy, so units come into play here.
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responds on 2008-08-20 16:29:21.0:
So anon three posts above--what you're saying is that blu-ray actually sold a lesser number of discs than the 5% to 6% suggests from the numbers? At twice the cost, that translates to only 2.5 or 3 percent of total disc sales. Wow...they're worse off than the sales numbers show!
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 16:40:45.0:
ANONYMOUS, on "...the market for anything is always calculated in dollars, because that is what shows demand." REALLY? Well, you've just come up with a new economic theory, that's for sure. Gross sales are an essential element for purposes of financial reports to investors and the like, because the market considers individual sales of particular products within a company's overall numbers to be irrelevant to its total result. The problem with your new theory however- especially in a world economy as we now have, - is that exchange rates, individual country market mix, etc., are wildly different from place to place. So does that mean that the VGCHARTZ digits are meaningless? Of course not, nor is there any reason to believe they're erroneous. What they clearly DO say, is how really BAD the BluRay sales are, given the fact that each purported sale of a BD disk or player is anywhere from 40% to 500% more MSRP, and that's why the BD camp is so reluctant to publish independent UNIT sales numbers, and especially unit sales number vs ALL DVDs. More to the point, the lack of unit sales numbers is explanatory of why BluRay has never become a mass market product to date(http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h8NENqGXBgBMYZ3BpHuxLhIawGIQD92KFB3G7). As to your silly example of car sales, I suggest you read all the financial pages at the end of each each year in particular, which stipulate car manufacturer winners and losers in terms of UNITS SOLD.
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-20 16:56:33.0:
Milt you are a TOTAL moron, no doubt. VGChartz in WORTHLESS, and so is the "data" they collect. For the entire month of July they had the 360 outselling the PS3 in North America by 2X. However, the accurate NPD numbers lists the PS3 to have outsold the 360 in the US. You have no idea about business finance, or anything else for that matter. I love this statement "which stipulate car manufacturer winners and losers in terms of UNITS SOLD"- So Corvette unit sales wil have to meet or exceed Corolla sales? Are the profit margins for the two cars the same? Just try to find a job "actor" and then you could post about your new experiences ;-)
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responds on 2008-08-20 17:14:46.0:
thank you blu titan. using dollars is what _makes_ the comparison apples to apples. milty-boy talking about gross sales vs. individual sales of a company and the world economy has nothing to do with the conversation. bottom line, packaged media is a 24 billion dollar industry. of the movie distribution portion of that, from weekly statistics, blu-ray is presently providing over 9% and to date providing 8%, if vg charts is to be believed. that's "the market" and milty's "94% to 95%" was just completely made up. please show me, milty boy these "financial pages at the end of each each year in particular, which stipulate car manufacturer winners and losers in terms of UNITS SOLD." i'm pretty sure investors want profit, not unit's sold - i know i do.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 17:15:28.0:
BLU TITAN: Well, now that you've discounted the VGCHASRTZ as "worthless", does this mean a new schism has erupted among BluRay junkies? One posts those numbers as somehow supportive of BD sales(despite those numbers in fact showing just how BAD they are), and now you are characterizing them as the reverse? Once again, as to the auto sales, I would respectfully suggest you check financial pages - particularly at the end of each year - and you will find the auto makers listed as winners or losers depending upon the overall number of unit sales. The reports don't care whether Toyota sold x-number of Corollas, x-number of their Lexus brand, etc., or how many of each of its brands G.M. sold. All those reports care about are total units. At least take a class at your local community college in economics and finance before you make those silly statements.
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responds on 2008-08-20 17:33:27.0:
dude - seriously. no one is saying that financials care about numbers of individual cars sold. all we're saying is that they don't care about total units of all cars sold either. who sells more cars, bmw or hyundai? hyundai probably sells tons more cars, but which is doing better financially? according to financial papers, bmw. why? because it's revenues are $58 million to hyundai's $57.5 million. units sold is meaningless to investors. revenues (dollars) is what matters.
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responds on 2008-08-20 17:53:16.0:
and vgchartz may be worthless, but those statistics come from home theater magazine, which i believe is accurate. and despite milty-boy's insistance they show that blu-ray is doing badly, anyone with a brain can see that, for how deeply entrenched dvd is, blu-ray is not only doing decently, but better all the time - up from 6% to 8% to date, in the last several weeks. instead of pulling the conversation off-topic, if you want to prove blu-ray is doing badly, milty-boy, what were dvd's sales numbers at this same point in their life cycle? hmmm???
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 17:54:42.0:
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AS TO AUTO SALES: I respectfully suggest you go to sources such as Ward's Automotive Reports, and Manufacturing & Services International Trade Administration for more information. You will find that about 99% of the automotive industry references UNIT sales. And here I DO specifically know what I'm talking about. Much of my 30 years as a financial services industry executive here in the L.A. area dealt directly and indirectly with the automobile industry, everything from sales to parts manufacturing, and all other aspects.
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 18:00:03.0:
Milty boy's involvement with the automobile industry sounds more like a USED car salesman, eh? Or, a two-bit actor. Or, both. Anyone who STILL has a vintage RPTV can't have been all THAT successful, eh?
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responds on 2008-08-20 19:04:02.0:
"here's an example for you - if i am a car manufacturer and i sell 10 cars in a year for 5 million dollars apiece, and you are a car manufacturer and sell 50k cars for $100 apiece, who has the lead in the market? i do - by 10x. " Riiiiight...and I'm guessing in all your infinite financial wisdom that you're gonna pay your work group and managers to sit on their a$$es the other 42 weeks of the year...WITH benefits. That is if it takes a week to build each of your $5 million cars...and IF you can find ten "somebodys" so ignorant as to give up that $5 million each on a car... What kind of sense does THAT make?
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-20 21:08:20.0:
"At least take a class at your local community college in economics and finance before you make those silly statements."-For your information dear Milt, I have taught economics and finance to both college and university students. Your statements make little sense, but that is to be expected. I would engage in any type of discussion you wish, but from your posting history it is evident that you are clueless. The only finance you ever did was from a small room in a used car dealership.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 21:43:17.0:
BLU TITAN. on having taught economics and finance. God, I surely pity your students if what you claim is true. I have an extensive background as a financial services industry executive here in the L.A. area for 30 years, and much of that was directly and indirectly related to the auto industry. What many not from years ago may know, is that California was once a MAJOR auto assembly mecca, with Chevrolets being made in Van Nuys and South Gate, and Cadillacs in South Gate, among others around the state. That's part of the connection. ANYWAY, for you dummies, I don't know exactly how or why the auto industry measures its relative success or failure in terms of UNITS, but that has always been the measurement criteria they've used. Here's a sampling of independent sources, and how they always report in UNITS(and percentage increase or decrease in UNITS):
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/01/04/074386.html
A N D
http://www.hybridcar.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=565&Itemid=45
A N D
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2008/01/04/2007_US_car_sales_lowest_level_in_decade/UPI-91471199456098/
These are representative of all such information. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your opinions to yourself.
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responds on 2008-08-20 21:52:47.0:
as this is completely meaningless to this board, consider this my closing argument. _you_ said "the market," normally implying the stock market, the economy, and vested interest in such. units manufactured and sold is meaningless to "the market" in comparison to earned revenue. your the one talking about how the essential data in financial reports is total units sold, when the very definition of financial is "pertaining to monetary receipts and expenditures; pertaining or relating to money matters; pecuniary" and then referencing Ward's, whose company description makes no mention of "finance," but is "THE SOURCE for global auto industry news and analysis." bottom line, if you want to compare two products, two companies, etc. you have to do so from a financial, monetary perspective.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 21:58:52.0:
ANONYMOUS. O N E M O R E T I M E: I didn't invent their doing so, so stop beating on the messenger. The AUTO INDUSTRY measures its success or failure in terms of UNITS(or increase/decrease in numbers of UNITS). Period. End of story. I didn't make that up. Read the representative URLs I've given you. What's so difficult to understand about that simple concept?
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 23:48:41.0:
Milty boy wrote: "What's so difficult to understand about that simple concept? Report inappropriate content" And, THAT simple concept is "The AUTO INDUSTRY measures its success or failure in terms of UNITS(or increase/decrease in numbers of UNITS)" - Well, yes indeed, if those "UNITS" are bucks. You measure your success by how much you earn against your capital worth. And, how much market share you gained (or expect to gain), since that determines your FUTURE profits. Milty boy doesn't seem to understand this. Sooooo, is Milty boy just a two-bit actor? Well, in this here forum for sure. Go figure.
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Saluting the Heroes of Blu-Ray,link - Hide thread - By Kevin Dees on August 18, 2008:
Saluting the Heroes of Blu-Ray,link - Show thread - By Kevin Dees on August 18, 2008 - 19 responses - Last response on August 21, 2008
Blu-Ray is not just discs, it is the story of what people did and how they won a war in record time. It's the early adopters who went out and bought PS3's when everyone else said the technology would ... Show entire thread and 19 responses
- Blu-Ray is not just discs, it is the story of what people did and how they won a war in record time. It's the early adopters who went out and bought PS3's when everyone else said the technology would fail. It's the guy who would check the sales everyday, and go BOGOFing and BOGOHOing whenever it they were available. It's the people who participated in planned-buys on Amazon to drive up the sales statistics. It the guy that jumped off his couch and started screaming and cheering at the top of his lungs when news about the war being won hit. Let us not forget this story.
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19 responses:
Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-19 03:10:22.0:
As a fan of Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune, I happened to run across this DVD: http://www.amazon.com/Toshir%C3%83%C2%B4-Reisaburo-Yamamoto-Nakakita-Tonoyama/dp/B000VARC3C/ref=pd_sim_d_4 - while looking for Fassbinder's "The Marriage of Maria Braun", and finding this collection: http://www.amazon.com/Fassbinders-Trilogy-Marriage-Maria-Veronika/dp/B0000AKY56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1219118317&sr=1-1. Looks like I'm still buying SD DVDs...
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-19 13:15:05.0:
DON'T PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK: Unfortunately, the 'heroes of BluRay' apparently can't read. As far as the mass market has been concerned, BD has been pretty much a flop, selling a staggering average of 14 standalone players monthly at Wal*Mart and BestBuy(see elsewhere on this board for details, all of which are based not upon my numbers but on Milt's Nemesis). Anyway, from Associated Press, "Three years after their launch, Blu-ray players are popular with home-theater aficionados but have not caught on in the mainstream, except through Sony's PlayStation 3 game console, which can play Blu-ray discs.
In emphasizing DVDs, Toshiba is playing up to a difficulty for Blu-ray marketers: Most U.S. consumers are happy with DVDs, according to a recent study by ABI Research, and don't believe Blu-ray provides as big of a quality jump as DVDs did over VHS tapes." (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h8NENqGXBgBMYZ3BpHuxLhIawGIQD92KFB3G7)
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responds on 2008-08-19 14:39:58.0:
considering that the ps3 is the most capable blu-ray player, and one of the cheapest, just taking standalone players into account is pretty skewed. everyone i know personally that was looking for a blu-ray player opted for the ps3, so i expect "except through Sony's PlayStation 3 game console" is a big "except." why don't you give us some data on how many ps3s are purchased primarily as blu-ray players and only secondarily as game machines, since you happily speak of it as a side note. i personally am confident in the future of blu-ray. and, no offense to "Most U.S. consumers," but the jump from 480p to 1080p was a bit larger than from 480i to 480p. btw, that article doesn't source it's material, can you please provide a direct link to the "ABI Research" study? is it the same one that said that 75% of people are planning to buy a blu-ray player in the next 24 months? and that 90% of people said that blu-ray was better than dvd (50% "much", 40% "somewhat")? here's another quote from that article for those of you unwilling to follow milty-boy's links: "Toshiba didn't demonstrate the XDE against a Blu-ray or HD DVD player, and Louis Masses, director of product planning for the audio and video group at Toshiba America Consumer Products, was careful to stress that it's not meant to compete with or replace Blu-ray. 'If you want Blu-ray, go get Blu-ray. This product is meant to improve playback of DVDs,' Masses said...Blu-ray players have six times the image detail of a DVD, and upscaling players, even those using XDE technology, can't overcome that. But they can sharpen edges to overcome the blurriness of a DVD when displayed on a large screen." that's pretty "clear" - 6x resolution, or slightly sharper. i know on milty's mediocre system, the difference is marginal. not so for many of us.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-19 16:16:08.0:
ANONYMOUS, On your BluRay arguments, including PS3s. The ABI research study was referenced in the Associated Press Article)http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h8NENqGXBgBMYZ3BpHuxLhIawGIQD92KFB3G7), not by me. As I've said before, the problem with that 50%/40% 'better than DVD' is in itself not only skewed but disingenuous, though not overtly dishonest on its face. What they're comparing is 480 vs BluRay, and not upcons vs BluRay. The Oppo study, and most all the professional independent analysts opinions(the URLs are posted by me all over this board) confirm that most average viewers just can't see much difference and IMO that is the very CRUX of the problem for BluRay(as it was for HD-DVD), and IMO is the core reason why BD is just not selling(a whopping average of 14 monthly BluRay standalone players selling at BestBuy and Wal*Mart if you assume Milt's Nemesis numbers are accurate - see the posts on this board for details). Why pay 4 to 7 times as much for a BluRay player, instead of $69 everyday price for a perfectly good upcon player producing an image little different to most observers? And, of course, Toshiba, contrary to its silly statement about its XDE player(the technology for which they are purportedly going to license to other DVD manufacturers as well), IS in fact aimed DIRECTLY at BluRay standalone players; IMO that $149 MSRP is designed to drop to somewhere around $99 for the Christmas holiday, and take a sale away from BD each time. The BluRay camp I think has really put themselves in a very bad spot with current BD standalone pricing. But how does this affect electronic distribution of movies to the home? Not at all I think, as evidenced by the extraordinary success of the Netflix online Roku box system, so hot they can't supply the demand, being 3-weeks behind. But, one thing is for sure, we can all together now SAY BYE-BYE TO ALL OPTICAL DISKS !!!
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-19 16:45:26.0:
Well, PS3s on amazon are backordered, so I had to order Sony 80GB PlayStation 3 Metal Gear Solid 4 Bundle (98011) from Circuit City - for my son. However, did order cables, remote, a BD from amazon. I'll probably buy a stand-alone BD player myself in the near future, too. Am getting tired of needing to use my laptop for playing BDs. Milty boy can bitch, piss, and moan about Blu-ray as much as he wants to. And, yeah, my first oil/gas well is turning out to be about twice as big as the 2nd one, sooooooo I'm I'm not exactly hurting that the 2nd one turned out to be dry. 3rd one should turn out to be interesting, because it too is likely to be bigger than forecast. 4th is still pending. I don't think I'll be pinching pennies, though. Milty boy, on the other hand, is REALLY into sour grapes, eh? Wonder why, eh? Aha Haha Haha
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-19 17:52:55.0:
Milt has a gripe with the studios, expecially Sony. Milt is an "actor" that obviously was not given many acting jobs by "rich executives". Thus, he vents his frustrations all over the net. Keep it up if you need to Milt, we are fully aware that HD movies are NOT a worthwile purchase when watching them in a CRT TV.
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Blu Titan responds on 2008-08-19 18:08:15.0:
U.S. Blu-ray Sales to Top DVD Sales by 2012
Author: ERIK GRUENWEDEL
egruenwedel@questex.com
Posted: August 19, 2008
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Sales of Blu-ray Discs in the United States are expected to total about 45 million units this year (up 400% year-over-year) and equal to 61% of all packaged media (DVD) unit sales by 2012, according to a new report.
Industry experts expect a banner fourth quarter, with BD sales already accounting for 5% to 6% of major title sales, according to London-based Futuresource Consulting. That sales percentage could reach 12% on some of the major releases.
I would be amazed if we dont see a Blu-ray player in the U.S. at or below $250 by the end of the year, said Futuresource analyst Jack Wetherill. To stimulate consumer traffic in the holiday season, whos to say there wont be a player [priced] closer to $200?
The report hinted at a relative dearth of catalog titles released thus far on the next-generation optical-media format despite assurances by studios to up distribution. All eyes are on Warner Bros. initiative to cut catalog prices, said Mai Hoang, a lead analyst with Futuresource. Other studios and retailers are going to be watching consumer reaction to this very carefully.
By comparison, the report said sales of Blu-ray movies in Western Europe would lag compared to those in the United States, representing 50% of home entertainment sales in France, 46% in Germany, 44% in the United Kingdom, 43% in Spain and 39% in Italy.
We expect 2% of unit sales in the lead markets of the U.K. and France to be on BD this year, and & likely to hit 5-6% next year, Hoang said.
The report concluded that by 2012, upwards of 50% of all consumer spending on packaged media will be on Blu-ray Disc.
www.homemediamagazine.com
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-19 21:43:03.0:
PROJECTIONS OUT TO 2012? Hell, let's really get with it. By that date, a new replaceable power system for my Cadillac will be available that not only gets the equivalent of 100 miles to the gallon(or on a 2-hour electrical charge), but actually FLIES. Yesiree Bob, nothing like those projections for a good laugh. Remember also how Adlai Stevenson(1952), Al Gore(2000) and John Kerry(2004) were projected to be the presidential winners at one point or other? All together now, let's project more accurately, how we can all SAY BYE-BYE TO ALL OPTICAL DISKS !!!
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 00:04:32.0:
Right, Milty boy drives a Cadillac, even though he couldn't afford to buy HD DVDs, or a BD player. He still has a dinosaur analogue CRT RPTV that's only capable of 1080i, but tries to tell everyone that it's as good as a state-of-the-art digital 1080p HDTV. What a sorry joke. And, yeah, the Supreme Court decided a certain presidential election, when 95% of constitutional scholars opined that they'd stay out of THAT issue. And, sounds like Milty boy is all in favor of McLame - they are about on par, eh?
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responds on 2008-08-20 09:08:27.0:
all of your "opinions" are rather moot, aren't they milty-boy, since not one of your "opinions" has yet to come to fruition (apparently the latest of which is that we'll have 100 mpg, flying cars by 2012). you say you're not referencing the abi study, but 're immediately afterward you make reference to it. how do you know they compared "480 vs BluRay, and not upcons vs BluRay"? you don't, because admittedly, you've never even seen the study. you repeating the same rhetoric from one comment to the next does not refute any of my statements. found out how many roku players have actually sold? vudu boxes? bought into any of those formats that you say you just can't wait to get?
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Milt's Nemesis responds on 2008-08-20 09:50:11.0:
Milt "BD has been pretty much a flop, selling a staggering average of 14 standalone players monthly at Wal*Mart and BestBuy(see elsewhere on this board for details, all of which are based not upon my numbers but on Milt's Nemesis)." Hahahahahaha. Back after a brief sojourn, and what do I see? Another PITIFUL attempt attempt at spin from our favourite retarded uncle, Milty. Firstly, the figures I gave were based purely on the sales of the THIRD most popular player at those US stores. Assuming JUST 120,000 units per month, at JUST two stores and JUST in the USA, that gives 1.4 million SAs in a year. Now, I know you just LOVE to rave about sales of the iPhone. Apple hopes to sell 10 million iPhones in a year. Some number. But that's worldwide. Apple has 200 stores in the US ( http://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/ ) and AT&T has it in 1800 stores ( http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2007/06/attention_iphon.html ). The UK has 500 O2 stores ( http://shop.o2.co.uk/info/ ) and 800 Carphone Warehouse ( http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/Carphone_Warehouse_introduces_space_saving_planner.html ) stores selling it, plus 20 Apple stores. Figure 3300 stores in the US and UK alone. Add France - Apple only sells the iPhone through Orange's 680 stores ( http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/05/frances_orange_sells_nearly_30000_iphones_in_five_days.html ). Figure 4000 stores in the USA, UK and France. Add Germany, 700 Deutsche Telekom stores ( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/technology/20iphone.html?n=Top/News/Business/Companies/Deutsche%20Telekom%20A.G. ) and that's 4700. That's as far as I could be bothered to look, but that's an average of 177 per store, over 4 countries. Not including on-line, not including the rest of the world. Now, see how outright STUPID your "14 players a month" figure looks? Good.
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 13:53:58.0:
MILT'S NEMESIS: I see you're still inhaling DEEPLY. (1)Where is independent confirmation of the information you are NOW providing that your 120,000 number is based only on sales of the "THIRD most popular" player at those stores, and exactly what brand is that? Please provide a URL showing such information; (2)Where is independent confirmation that your 120,000 number represents sales ONLY at U.S. Wal*Marts and BestBuy? Please provide a URL showing such information. Once you provide this independent data I will be able to respond.
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Milt's Nemesis responds on 2008-08-20 14:55:09.0:
Milt R Sole. "(1)Where is independent confirmation of the information you are NOW providing that your 120,000 number is based only on sales of the "THIRD most popular" player at those stores, and exactly what brand is that?" DUH-1. As said previously, with links ALREADY provided, hearby repeated for the SLOW of reading/thinking, the rebadged Funai players are the THIRD most popular selling stand-alones at Wal*mart and Best Buy (or 4th at Wal*Mart, if the PS3 is included). That means TWO players sell MORE units at each retailer. Keeping up? Goooood. DUH-2. Funai currently ONLY make players for Wal*Mart and Best Buy in the US. Clear enough? Or do I NEED to bring out the FINGER PUPPETS?
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Milt's Nemesis responds on 2008-08-20 14:59:48.0:
And, just to further egg the pudding, here's a link to Funai global - http://www.funaiworld.com/index.html Feel free to find a Blu Ray product anywhere but in the USA. Hopefully now you'll be "able to respond", but I wouldn't bother. It'll just be the usual, repetitive, heard-it-all-before-and-it-still-don't-make-sense, Milt Brand(C) bullshiit.
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Milt's Nemesis responds on 2008-08-20 15:04:55.0:
Oh, and one more thing. Why are you coming back NOW and asking for PROOF on the figures I provided AFTER already using those same figures as a BASIS for statements of your OWN? Happy to BELIEVE them when making your OWN a$$-umptions? Not so HAPPY when they DON'T fit in with your SPIN eh?
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Milt R. Smith responds on 2008-08-20 15:22:04.0:
MILT'S NEMESIS ON "...with links already provided..." What links? All I'm looking for is URLs to independent sources proving that your 120,000 number is what you're saying it is(US store sales only), and that they include only the THIRD selling BluRay player(not identified). I've looked at your past posts and I can find NO such independent links to URLs with such data. Unless and until you provide such independent URLs confirming this information, I can only assume that your numbers are either in part or whole, a fabrication by you. I'm ready to be proved wrong.
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Mike HD The Pirate of the Format Wars responds on 2008-08-20 23:59:28.0:
Milty boy wrote: "I'm ready to be proved wrong" - well, THAT don't do much good, does it? He's been proven wrong time again and again. However, he's like that turd that just won't flush - though he's NO EQUAL to THAT particular turd, if you get my drift. And, yeah, BD DVD and player sales look kinda iffy - I'd predicted THAT long ago. However, I'd also predicted that Blu-ray would survive, irrespective of HD DVD winning. Sooooo, now that HD DVD lost, why will Blu-ray lose TOO? That's just such an imbecile argument by a senile retard.
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Milt's Nemesis responds on 2008-08-21 02:20:01.0:
Milt R Sole "All I'm looking for is URLs to independent sources proving that your